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Post by chloé on Jun 28, 2021 21:10:29 GMT
I think I was like a halfway house with my experience. I had those realisations as a child, then subconsciously pushed them down and forgot about them. Then there were plenty of other signs over the years, but because my subconscious had buried that truth, I never connected them to it. Until one day I did! I've been thinking today about how since that realisation, my connection to that truth has changed. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, it has always seemed to come in waves, where some of the time I've had no problem with presenting as male and other times I've been acutely aware that that is putting on a front and feels very, very wrong. Based on previous waves, in theory I should soon reach the point where it fades into the background again, but I'm not sure it will this time. Partly because I think I am more accepting of myself now, and aware that I am a woman who looks like a man, rather than a man who wants to be a woman (if that makes sense? A subtle but important difference!) But the other reason I think it won't, and which has also fed into my self-acceptance in a big way I think, is having our little community of amazing ladies to chat about stuff with It's no longer just putting on some different clothes and thinking "I wonder and I wish". It's having real conversations, with real people, as myself and without having to guard my words and the sentiments I convey. And it's experiencing how much better that is than what I've had to do in every other conversation I've ever had. So thank you all 😊💗 I agree with you sister. Before I wanted to a woman by waves even if I knew that I was a woman in reality. Chloé was always here. Before to find you, now with all the discussions I have with all of you, I know definitely that I’m chloé. I’m surprised by this because now I have feelings as a woman, I want to share girls stuff with you. I begin to really self accept myself as a woman hidden behind a man. I even look for false breasts and girly clothes. Before meeting you I couldn’t imagine to have this courage. Now I want to try make up, panties, I’m not able to think of you as men who wants to be women. You are my girlfriends and I’m a part of our sorority. It’s amazing to feel it with you. I imagine all of us together on holydays in the thread it is summertime and it gives me real happiness. I think it’s impossible to go back and I definitely don’t want Chloé
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Post by Lily on Jun 28, 2021 21:31:33 GMT
I think I was like a halfway house with my experience. I had those realisations as a child, then subconsciously pushed them down and forgot about them. Then there were plenty of other signs over the years, but because my subconscious had buried that truth, I never connected them to it. Until one day I did! I've been thinking today about how since that realisation, my connection to that truth has changed. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, it has always seemed to come in waves, where some of the time I've had no problem with presenting as male and other times I've been acutely aware that that is putting on a front and feels very, very wrong. Based on previous waves, in theory I should soon reach the point where it fades into the background again, but I'm not sure it will this time. Partly because I think I am more accepting of myself now, and aware that I am a woman who looks like a man, rather than a man who wants to be a woman (if that makes sense? A subtle but important difference!) But the other reason I think it won't, and which has also fed into my self-acceptance in a big way I think, is having our little community of amazing ladies to chat about stuff with It's no longer just putting on some different clothes and thinking "I wonder and I wish". It's having real conversations, with real people, as myself and without having to guard my words and the sentiments I convey. And it's experiencing how much better that is than what I've had to do in every other conversation I've ever had. So thank you all 😊💗 That line highlighted in bold is the absolute core of our experience. I think that was the thought I always got stuck at "I don't want to be a woman". I think even those who are not transphobic may not understand this. It isn't that we want to be women as such, it is that we just want to be who we already are. It's funny that as the new girl I initially thought that everyone else had this all figured out. I gradually came to realise that this far from the case, that you all struggle with this too. I am pleased to have helped played a part in making this community of ours go stronger, and by doing so help you all gain greater benefit from being here.
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Post by Lily on Jun 28, 2021 21:41:44 GMT
I agree with you sister. Before I wanted to a woman by waves even if I knew that I was a woman in reality. Chloé was always here. Before to find you, now with all the discussions I have with all of you, I know definitely that I’m chloé. I’m surprised by this because now I have feelings as a woman, I want to share girls stuff with you. I begin to really self accept myself as a woman hidden behind a man. I even look for false breasts and girly clothes. Before meeting you I couldn’t imagine to have this courage. Now I want to try make up, panties, I’m not able to think of you as men who wants to be women. You are my girlfriends and I’m a part of our sorority. It’s amazing to feel it with you. I imagine all of us together on holydays in the thread it is summertime and it gives me real happiness. I think it’s impossible to go back and I definitely don’t want Chloé Chloe, I am so pleased that you have found greater acceptance of yourself as to who you really are. I can really feel how happy you are about it all reading your words. I think if there's one thing I'd wish to do more than anything else, is for us to be all together looking exactly like how we'd wish to look, and simply just enjoy each other's company. xox, Woori-Mei
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Post by Jessica on Jun 29, 2021 4:24:13 GMT
I think I was like a halfway house with my experience. I had those realisations as a child, then subconsciously pushed them down and forgot about them. Then there were plenty of other signs over the years, but because my subconscious had buried that truth, I never connected them to it. Until one day I did! I've been thinking today about how since that realisation, my connection to that truth has changed. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, it has always seemed to come in waves, where some of the time I've had no problem with presenting as male and other times I've been acutely aware that that is putting on a front and feels very, very wrong. Based on previous waves, in theory I should soon reach the point where it fades into the background again, but I'm not sure it will this time. Partly because I think I am more accepting of myself now, and aware that I am a woman who looks like a man, rather than a man who wants to be a woman (if that makes sense? A subtle but important difference!) But the other reason I think it won't, and which has also fed into my self-acceptance in a big way I think, is having our little community of amazing ladies to chat about stuff with It's no longer just putting on some different clothes and thinking "I wonder and I wish". It's having real conversations, with real people, as myself and without having to guard my words and the sentiments I convey. And it's experiencing how much better that is than what I've had to do in every other conversation I've ever had. So thank you all 😊💗 Omg Maria I connected with this on just about every level. Especially the part about it coming in waves. It absolutely does. For my entire life. 100% I totally relate. That is why I sometimes wonder if I am really gender fluid. And I also wonder if it wont go away this time, for the exact same reasons you listed. Which is great because that is exactly why I started this place. It. Is. Working! Love you sister!
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Post by Jessica on Jun 29, 2021 4:26:13 GMT
I think I was like a halfway house with my experience. I had those realisations as a child, then subconsciously pushed them down and forgot about them. Then there were plenty of other signs over the years, but because my subconscious had buried that truth, I never connected them to it. Until one day I did! I've been thinking today about how since that realisation, my connection to that truth has changed. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, it has always seemed to come in waves, where some of the time I've had no problem with presenting as male and other times I've been acutely aware that that is putting on a front and feels very, very wrong. Based on previous waves, in theory I should soon reach the point where it fades into the background again, but I'm not sure it will this time. Partly because I think I am more accepting of myself now, and aware that I am a woman who looks like a man, rather than a man who wants to be a woman (if that makes sense? A subtle but important difference!) But the other reason I think it won't, and which has also fed into my self-acceptance in a big way I think, is having our little community of amazing ladies to chat about stuff with It's no longer just putting on some different clothes and thinking "I wonder and I wish". It's having real conversations, with real people, as myself and without having to guard my words and the sentiments I convey. And it's experiencing how much better that is than what I've had to do in every other conversation I've ever had. So thank you all 😊💗 That line highlighted in bold is the absolute core of our experience. I think that was the thought I always got stuck at "I don't want to be a woman". I think even those who are not transphobic may not understand this. It isn't that we want to be women as such, it is that we just want to be who we already are. It's funny that as the new girl I initially thought that everyone else had this all figured out. I gradually came to realise that this far from the case, that you all struggle with this too. I am pleased to have helped played a part in making this community of ours go stronger, and by doing so help you all gain greater benefit from being here. Haha, oh sweetie none of us have anything figured out haha! We all have our demons, and quite frankly we all have our roles within this community even. Yours is a crucial one, I think almost the backbone of the whole thing!
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Post by Lily on Jun 29, 2021 6:54:17 GMT
I think if any of us had figured it out then you wouldn't have created this forum. and none of us would have come and stayed.
I am touched you think me the backbone of this. I kind of see what you mean. I'm not looking for compliments here, but what makes you say that?
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Post by Maria on Jun 29, 2021 9:12:02 GMT
I think I was like a halfway house with my experience. I had those realisations as a child, then subconsciously pushed them down and forgot about them. Then there were plenty of other signs over the years, but because my subconscious had buried that truth, I never connected them to it. Until one day I did! I've been thinking today about how since that realisation, my connection to that truth has changed. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, it has always seemed to come in waves, where some of the time I've had no problem with presenting as male and other times I've been acutely aware that that is putting on a front and feels very, very wrong. Based on previous waves, in theory I should soon reach the point where it fades into the background again, but I'm not sure it will this time. Partly because I think I am more accepting of myself now, and aware that I am a woman who looks like a man, rather than a man who wants to be a woman (if that makes sense? A subtle but important difference!) But the other reason I think it won't, and which has also fed into my self-acceptance in a big way I think, is having our little community of amazing ladies to chat about stuff with It's no longer just putting on some different clothes and thinking "I wonder and I wish". It's having real conversations, with real people, as myself and without having to guard my words and the sentiments I convey. And it's experiencing how much better that is than what I've had to do in every other conversation I've ever had. So thank you all 😊💗 Omg Maria I connected with this on just about every level. Especially the part about it coming in waves. It absolutely does. For my entire life. 100% I totally relate. That is why I sometimes wonder if I am really gender fluid. And I also wonder if it wont go away this time, for the exact same reasons you listed. Which is great because that is exactly why I started this place. It. Is. Working! Love you sister! I wondered about gender-fluid and bigender at various points in the past. In moments of brutally honest self-examination though, I realised that neither of those really fit. Those moments where I thought I felt more male than female, really they were me trying to claw back the familiar and arguably simpler time when gender wasn't something I thought about. Mix that with internalised transphobia that I think I still carried, plus some very false assumptions and conclusions based on either a false understanding, or an understanding that then got skewed by that internalised transphobia. Ridiculous things like "I'm eating these crisps really fast and then I burped, and that's such a man thing to do and OMG I'm such a man after all..." Like - looking at those moments now, with greater knowledge and self-acceptance, I don't even know where to begin with unpacking all the things that would be wrong with that statement 😂 Oh wait, I do: GENDER. IS. NOT. PHYSICAL. IT IS WHO YOU ARE There, I fixed it! Women get hungry and have bodily functions too lol! Am I the most lady-like of ladies? Well, no. Part of which probably comes down to the core of who I am, and some of which probably comes from a lifetime of fulfilling a role which is expected to be the opposite of that, rather than a lifetime of fulfilling expectations of being ladylike.
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Post by Jessica on Jun 30, 2021 16:35:51 GMT
I think if any of us had figured it out then you wouldn't have created this forum. and none of us would have come and stayed. I am touched you think me the backbone of this. I kind of see what you mean. I'm not looking for compliments here, but what makes you say that? I think that because you have really just opened the floodgates this week and you took us along on the journey, it really gave this board a sense of purpose that it needed to get off the ground. If this were a TV, you provided the main storyline and the other stuff is the B line. Without you, there wouldn't be enough here, in my opinion, to keep people from coming back. We have 300 people visit this site a day, but only 24 registered members. Only about half of those members have ever posted anything, and only 5 (the 5 of us) have posted consistently. A lot of people have dipped their toe in but haven't stuck around. I think you gave people a reason to stick around. It is the reason why I always respond so enthusiastically and send private messages to everyone who registers. Because I know they'll more than likely forget about us tomorrow. But I want to grow this community and make it strong enough to last the test of time.
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Post by Jessica on Jun 30, 2021 16:39:06 GMT
Omg Maria I connected with this on just about every level. Especially the part about it coming in waves. It absolutely does. For my entire life. 100% I totally relate. That is why I sometimes wonder if I am really gender fluid. And I also wonder if it wont go away this time, for the exact same reasons you listed. Which is great because that is exactly why I started this place. It. Is. Working! Love you sister! I wondered about gender-fluid and bigender at various points in the past. In moments of brutally honest self-examination though, I realised that neither of those really fit. Those moments where I thought I felt more male than female, really they were me trying to claw back the familiar and arguably simpler time when gender wasn't something I thought about. Mix that with internalised transphobia that I think I still carried, plus some very false assumptions and conclusions based on either a false understanding, or an understanding that then got skewed by that internalised transphobia. Ridiculous things like "I'm eating these crisps really fast and then I burped, and that's such a man thing to do and OMG I'm such a man after all..." Like - looking at those moments now, with greater knowledge and self-acceptance, I don't even know where to begin with unpacking all the things that would be wrong with that statement 😂 Oh wait, I do: GENDER. IS. NOT. PHYSICAL. IT IS WHO YOU ARE There, I fixed it! Women get hungry and have bodily functions too lol! Am I the most lady-like of ladies? Well, no. Part of which probably comes down to the core of who I am, and some of which probably comes from a lifetime of fulfilling a role which is expected to be the opposite of that, rather than a lifetime of fulfilling expectations of being ladylike. Haha Maria I have these types of internal monologues all the time. I totally relate. I think I do have a stronger male side of me too, though. And he does exist inside me too. I do sometimes feel like two different people live inside my body. I do seriously question whether I am gender fluid. The male side is stronger than just little things like burping. One day when I am feeling particularly manly maybe I will come on here and you all can meet James haha. I gather from the things I read on here (and I am just assuming.....I could be wrong) that I have a stronger male side to me than the rest of you.
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Post by Lily on Jun 30, 2021 16:59:56 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. I think you're right, especially about the sense of purpose. I started a lot of new threads and new conversations. I showed what you can actually say on this forum, and what great benefit you can get from doing so too. That you can dive deep into your soul and expose what you've found, and that everyone else will be fine with you doing that. Here I finally found a place where I could really talk about it all, and so did so. There was no reason to hold back anymore.
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Post by Maria on Jun 30, 2021 18:15:11 GMT
I wondered about gender-fluid and bigender at various points in the past. In moments of brutally honest self-examination though, I realised that neither of those really fit. Those moments where I thought I felt more male than female, really they were me trying to claw back the familiar and arguably simpler time when gender wasn't something I thought about. Mix that with internalised transphobia that I think I still carried, plus some very false assumptions and conclusions based on either a false understanding, or an understanding that then got skewed by that internalised transphobia. Ridiculous things like "I'm eating these crisps really fast and then I burped, and that's such a man thing to do and OMG I'm such a man after all..." Like - looking at those moments now, with greater knowledge and self-acceptance, I don't even know where to begin with unpacking all the things that would be wrong with that statement 😂 Oh wait, I do: GENDER. IS. NOT. PHYSICAL. IT IS WHO YOU ARE There, I fixed it! Women get hungry and have bodily functions too lol! Am I the most lady-like of ladies? Well, no. Part of which probably comes down to the core of who I am, and some of which probably comes from a lifetime of fulfilling a role which is expected to be the opposite of that, rather than a lifetime of fulfilling expectations of being ladylike. Haha Maria I have these types of internal monologues all the time. I totally relate. I think I do have a stronger male side of me too, though. And he does exist inside me too. I do sometimes feel like two different people live inside my body. I do seriously question whether I am gender fluid. The male side is stronger than just little things like burping. One day when I am feeling particularly manly maybe I will come on here and you all can meet James haha. I gather from the things I read on here (and I am just assuming.....I could be wrong) that I have a stronger male side to me than the rest of you. I've read so many people say that about feeling like they're two different people living in the same body. I've never found that though. I always just feel like me. The only thing that does sometimes change (although as I said above, I wonder if it will or not this time around) is whether I feel like a slightly tomboyish girl, or a VERY feminine guy. And if the latter, then how much that bothers me. So like right now, I do no relate at all to being male. I'm a woman with some personality quirks and some interests that maybe are generally more associated with men. And when I do relate to being male, I still wonder if that is how I actually feel, deep down and honestly, or if I just reach a point of convincing myself that that is the case in order to hide from the fears and internalised transphobia. And because that is the vision of me the world has always seen, it is the version of me that I have seen most often in the mirror, and it is familiar and we instinctively cling to the familiar. Because on those days, the idea that the face looking back at me isn't really my own is so utterly terrifying that my mind can't face that reality. Wow, that got dark quickly lol!
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Post by Jessica on Jun 30, 2021 21:16:21 GMT
Haha Maria I have these types of internal monologues all the time. I totally relate. I think I do have a stronger male side of me too, though. And he does exist inside me too. I do sometimes feel like two different people live inside my body. I do seriously question whether I am gender fluid. The male side is stronger than just little things like burping. One day when I am feeling particularly manly maybe I will come on here and you all can meet James haha. I gather from the things I read on here (and I am just assuming.....I could be wrong) that I have a stronger male side to me than the rest of you. I've read so many people say that about feeling like they're two different people living in the same body. I've never found that though. I always just feel like me. The only thing that does sometimes change (although as I said above, I wonder if it will or not this time around) is whether I feel like a slightly tomboyish girl, or a VERY feminine guy. And if the latter, then how much that bothers me. So like right now, I do no relate at all to being male. I'm a woman with some personality quirks and some interests that maybe are generally more associated with men. And when I do relate to being male, I still wonder if that is how I actually feel, deep down and honestly, or if I just reach a point of convincing myself that that is the case in order to hide from the fears and internalised transphobia. And because that is the vision of me the world has always seen, it is the version of me that I have seen most often in the mirror, and it is familiar and we instinctively cling to the familiar. Because on those days, the idea that the face looking back at me isn't really my own is so utterly terrifying that my mind can't face that reality. Wow, that got dark quickly lol! I am definitely fighting that same battle sweetie. You're not alone. The problem is, it isn't a battle we can win unless we come to a definite answer. The answer to that question is the #1 thing I hope to figure out through this board.
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Post by Jessica on Jun 30, 2021 21:17:27 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. I think you're right, especially about the sense of purpose. I started a lot of new threads and new conversations. I showed what you can actually say on this forum, and what great benefit you can get from doing so too. That you can dive deep into your soul and expose what you've found, and that everyone else will be fine with you doing that. Here I finally found a place where I could really talk about it all, and so did so. There was no reason to hold back anymore. Yeah Woori, you basically discovered who you are, in real time, right before our eyes and took us along for the ride! Its been great!
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Post by Lily on Jul 1, 2021 4:04:24 GMT
Jessica,
I'm repeating myself I know, but I know that for me this was the best possbile way I could have done this. I'm eternally grateful to you, and you'll always have a special place in my heart as a result.
xox,
Woori-Mwi
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Post by Lily on Jul 1, 2021 4:25:48 GMT
Haha Maria I have these types of internal monologues all the time. I totally relate. I think I do have a stronger male side of me too, though. And he does exist inside me too. I do sometimes feel like two different people live inside my body. I do seriously question whether I am gender fluid. The male side is stronger than just little things like burping. One day when I am feeling particularly manly maybe I will come on here and you all can meet James haha. I gather from the things I read on here (and I am just assuming.....I could be wrong) that I have a stronger male side to me than the rest of you. One of the things I know I found challenging was thie concept of a male side and female side, or perhaps male behaviour and female behaviour. In looking at myself even now I still feel me. I've just found more explanations for my feelings and actions. I've accepted that I am at least part female, but that comes more from finally identifying the desire - gender envy, crossdressing, identifying with women more etc Outside of that I could not ascribe particular actions of mine as particularly female or male, that they could be either. As a basic example there are more sensitive men and "tougher" women. So whenever I might next ask myself the question how much of me is female, how much of me is male, I wonder how could I even determine that answer? For now it really doesn't matter, thinking that currently I just need to process and adjust. Jessica - I am curious as to what you think the differences in behaviour are. What is noticably feminine about Jessica's actions, and manly about James'?
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